By Open Book
When an actor meets reality it may take the form of Shia Labeouf’s recent altercation on the streets of Vancouver, captured on video last week by TMZ (click here to see video). Now, who knows what really happened. However, when an actors persona overpowers their capacity to manage who’s to blame? Is it the actor, filmmaker or the general public or all three? In this article we will try to shed light on the realities of actors interactions with the general public and what the general public can do to respect an actor’s privacy off set.
It appears in this video Labeouf is out of control and outnumbered. Today filmmakers are putting pressure on young actors to do more of their own stunts. Could this be to blame for some young actors not knowing when to walk away when outnumbered in a fight? Actors are under constant pressure to perform on and off screen. The general public expects actors to portray the action, comedian or superhero in public at all times. Let’s face it, life working on a film or television set where people are paid to create fiction is not the real world. In the real world there are real guns and knives. There are no stunt doubles, choreographed fights, green screen or a director to yell cut when things go too far.
The majority of actors who take their craft seriously can differentiate between reality and fiction. They are aware they are playing a fictional character and this is not their identity. Many choose to focus on their craft and leave the action to professional stunt crews. Yet, there are those who want to push the boundaries by doing their own stunts. Why? Some argue they want the action to look authentic but they are also being pressured into it. Come on! We all know an actor weighing 1o0 lbs. knocking out a person triple their weight and height is a bit fantastic. So why risk injury causing production to stop? Are filmmakers trying to create superheros? Why not spend the time on the acting for which the audience will appreciate more? However, many actors indulge in choreographed fights; under the watchful eye and protection of people making sure their harnesses are secured. Angelina Jolie performed her own stunts for SALT and was injured according to Andrew Hough from The Telegraph. [1]
“The role required her to jump across highway overpasses onto semi-trucks, perform hand-to-hand combat and handle a number of different weapons.
The 35 year-old, whose partner is Brad Pitt, said she sliced open part of her face just above her nose when tumbling into a doorway with a gun.”
Is it a good idea for a major actor to get involved with performing their own stunts? Can audiences separate fact from fiction easily when they see actors trying to become the actual superheroes? In an interview by Tricia Taylor on Actors on Stunt Work actor Tucker Smallwood from Star Trek: Enterprise stated; [2]
“It didn’t take long to respect the skills of my stunt crew. These days, I check my ego at the door and let those people earn their money. I was a paratrooper; an Advisor and Commander in Vietnam…but a man’s gotta know his limitations.”
Today real stunts have been making a comeback according to Steve Rose in an article called Risky Business:[3]
“Real stunts have been staging a comeback, and cinema is better off for them, as films like Bourne and Bond have shown. But something’s changed. We don’t just want our action heroes to act intrepid and athletic and superhuman, we want them to actually be action heroes for real.”
Is this a good idea for young actors, when the general public already has trouble respecting boundaries of actors off sett? Meaning the more filmmakers and actors blur the line between fact and fiction what harm are they doing to themselves and the general public? Will the general public protect an actor from themselves when they can’t distinguish a film set from the street like Shia Labeouf? How can the audience respect an actor for “acting” if they are being asked (by Hollywood) to think of them as “superheroes” for real?
What are your thoughts?
comicreleaf
comicrelief2
Comic Relief
parisienne
littlebells
Lurker
ozzie20
Open Book
LIH
linkedinhollywood.com 
I think actors should leave the stunts to the professionals. They are, after all, trained for this stuff and know how to take a fall, etc without hurting himself/herself. Unless an actor is a former stunt person and can do this stuff, he or she needs to check the ego at the door. 🙂 As far as Shia, IMO, he comes across as a hot head much like Russell Crowe does. I wonder if these guys get in physical altercations so much because some folks know they are excitable and want to see if they can get them riled up?
I agree with you 4 string. I think actors shouldn’t do their own stunts unless they have been professionally trained.
Haven’t watched the video yet, but am looking forward to it and the.discussion.
Great job OB!
I think actors can do small stunts where the risk is low e.g. a normal fight scene where punches maybe thrown, but stunt actors should take over for the more dangerous ones e.g more elaborate fight scenes, jumping off things etc. There should be some line so everyone can stay safe and production isn’t haulted after some accident.
Hi LB & 4strings.
4 strings-U bring up great points. I hope u can join our discussion tomorrow.
Ok, just watched the video. I am fascinated to know what caused this altercation. Is Shia known for getting into fights? Did he say something to piss that shirtless, hairy man off? And he was obviously quite upset for sometime as his friend had to physically restrain him and talk to him…
OB,
You brought up some great topics and I can’t wait for us to explore them more. 🙂
LB,
With Hollywood reporting, unfortunately it’s always difficult to separate fact from fiction. But I’ve read about Shia participating, instigating or extending fights on at least three different occasions.
If you want proof go to Google. Type in “Shia Labeouf fight” you’ll get at least three pages of incidents; NOT ALL PERTAINING TO THIS LATEST MISHAP.
Hope this answers your question.
thank you, CR! It does. 🙂
I saw another video but I didn’t know there was more! Wow! He seems to have some chip on his shoulder. What that is though, I do not know.
OB,
When I first read this article I thought this Labeouf incident was related to these events below.
Because they are related to anger and paparazzi retribution, now, I see that these events “discuss” a completely different, and more dangerous (for the actor) trend.
Great topic OB, can’t wait to discuss it later.
Since this did not post the last time, I am going to try it again.
I think that actors should leave stunts to the stunt professional. What is an actor trying to prove? IMO, I would want to be able to go home at the end of the night unscathed. Speaking of stunts, does anyone know why Rob did the stunt with the train for WFE? (Running after it, in the beginnning) what would have happened if he had tripped and fallen under the train?
CR,
The videos you are posting bring up good points in how far paps will go to anger a celeb and at what point will that celeb “lose their mind”?
Hi Paris-
Glad to see u.
Hi Open Book and Littlebells!
*waves* 🙂
HAHAHAHAHAHA,
I sincerely agree.
Hi everyone!
Woke up from a much needed but way too long nap. My mind is doing the “Time Warp” so hang in there with me. 🙂
Paris-
Don’t get me started on that WFE stunt. That train stunt IMO was completely rediculous. ITA What would have happened if he tripped? It’s hard to recover after being run over by a train.
IA. Thank God he didn’t trip but I know his stunt double did the train jumping scene. So i never understood why the stunt double didn’t do the running scene.
It would have hurt like a *beepity beep*.
I knew he did the getting on to the train stunt himself but not about his stunt double doing the jumping off scene. Then again, I had forgotten about that scene so I never thought about who did it, lol!
The stunt double did the scene where he jumped from car to car on the roof tops to go kill August.
Oh, that one! Yeah, I didn’t think about that one either, lol! Looking back, I think I would of assumed it was a stunt double. I’ve only seen it the once though so I was more engrossed with the plot than about the making of it. I usually have to watch the movie a few times before I think of the production. I do like watching the behind the scenes though!
Hi everyone.
Hi CR!
Hi Paris.
Hello all! Hi CR and Paris!
hi ozzie!
Hi Ozzie.
Hi Ozzie!!!
Hi LB!
OB, in your article, it stated, “Could this be to blame for some young actors not knowing when to walk away when outnumbered in a fight? Actors are under constant pressure to perform on and off screen.”
When it comes to stunt “fights”, it’s choreographed, the anger emotions that the actor is channeling are simulated, and when the director yells “cut”, it’s over. However, a real fight is less structured and controlled, particularly if the person has a somewhat explosive behavior to begin with. The anger is real and lasts much longer after the brawl has been stopped (per Shia’s reaction) and the potential of being hurt and hurting someone is much greater. Not to mention the being sued.
Now after having written all that, I cannot for the life of me remember where I was going with this. If you can make something of ^THAT^, then please fill in the blanks. 🙂
I understand it. 🙂
Bueno! I’m trying to figure out how I was tying it into the article topic.
Don’t worry we’ll give you time.
So here’s my thing. An actor is trained to “act” not do stunts. I think alot of young actors in HW are being pressured into performing their own stunts because HW is into doing “real” stunts these days.
IMO- This puts actors under alot more scrutiny by fans who think it’s cool to see real people doing impossible stunts. Which brings me to Shia Labeouf current situation in Vancouver. I’ve heard actors complain about fans wanting to fight them when they are out and about. Do u think HW current interest in turning actors into superhumans might have something to do with the general public challenging actors off set?
OB and LB,
Echoing your concern….
I agree with the evalution of ridiculousness of these events yet I don’t believe audiences are responding well to what they are seeing.
If you listen to a lot of the other people who have posted video’s responding to this incident a lot of people are sincerely concerned about his well-being.
Meant to say NOT well.
yes because the person wants to see if they can kick the actor’s butt or not and if they do. They can brag about it until God comes back.
Paris,
I respect your opinion, but many of us want actors to do their jobs. Many in the general public are unstable and should not be tested in regard to whether they should be fighting with confused actors.
Despite the Open book’s well-reasoned theory pertaining to the actor’s professional confusion regarding this event, many have speculated that Shia’s alcoholism is completely out of control.
CR,
I didn’t know Shia is an alcoholic.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news; (because I don’t really know). I have heard people say this on the web and unfortunately I may be spreading the rumor.
Tabloid media wins again; I guess I’m sorry.
its ok. I don’t pay attention to anyone unless i have to.
LOL! ITA let me come back to this. I have a lot to say.
Paris-
It’s very true some people want bragging rights that they kicked an A-List actors butt. Also, they might even instigate a fight for paps etc… We have discussed this at length here.
I know I have taken on a complex topic here. Yet, I believe filmmakers have a responsibilty to not make actors appear to be superhuman by bragging about them doing their own stunts. I think it blurs the lines between fact and fiction. I also beleive that actors can’t go everywhere and anywhere they want. It’s terrible but some fans don’t respect boundaries.
BOUNDARIES!!!! *fist flailing in the air*
Hmmm, I’m not sure whether them doing their own stunts adds to the problem alot. I think some people think they can goad actors. They see them as public property and think they can treat them however they want. Their line of thought is like “The actors need us so their careers continue, so they should take whatever we attention we give them even if it’s negative or hurtfull.” Maybe having the actors do their own stunts give these idiots the idea that they can handle whatever they throw at them. Maybe some actors think that by doing their own stunts, they have the power to fight back. I think boundries on both sides have been crossed and for roughly the same reason. The idiot’s think they own the actors, so they should be thankfull for what everythey get and actors think they can do anything they want because they’re like gods entertaining the little people, so they should be thankfull for whatever they give!
I not sure if that makes sense though, lol!
Hi Ozzie-
High five!! Well said..
It makes perfect sense.
Woo hoo! I did make sense, lol! Basically I think both sides are to blame.
That’s true. Take Rob for example. Fans give him packages to give to Kristen like her is her own personal mailman. they also scream at him “Kristen is lucky to have you.” They have no boundaries. (you should have seen the look on his face)
Oh! I did. R earned LIH’s “Golden Hold your Tongue Award.”
I have to share????? As long as I’m sharing with him its ok.
LOL!! We will splurge for two. One for u and R.
hahaha!!! You made me think of the “Golden Onion”!
CR-
Let me clarify something. LB brought up some of what I believe about getting into real fights off sett. Most often fans approach a actor in public. If an actor is not in the mood to perform for them or sign autographs etc…. Some fans feel rejected and want to fight back. I hear this happening to male actors and women fans wanting to fight them because they are making advances toward them. So who’s to blame in this situation? The fans or the actors?
k, help me understand: who’s making the advances? The women? If so, I blame the fans and the body guard. The actor is exhausted and shouldn’t have to always be on. If he is polite then the fans need to calm the hizzy down. ACtors are real folk as well.
It would be so easy to blame actors.
“Those idiots they play roles and expect the general public to be able to differentiate later.”
Obviously I cant answer that question but OB, how who you react if you knew the people restraining him in the end were not his friends or entourage.
Since it’s TMZ day, listen to the guy most peole think is a friend of Shia’s.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/19/shia-labeouf-knife-threats-fight-brawl-beatdown-vancouver/
I think our reactions would be completely different if Shea took Shia’s knife and gutted him right there on the street.
My point is Shia is ridculous to make himself this vulnerable. His sense of vulnerability has no relationship to reality.
Wow. I had no idea he had a knife on his person. Oh Shia. You have to be smarter than that!
Exactly. Shia doesn’t know the guy who has his hand all over Shia’s neck. Yeah the story just keeps getting worse.
Oh my gosh! My motherly instinct has kicked in!
Wow! Jeez, what’s happening to him? He seems to have some entitlement problem. Like he can do whatever he wants and everyone else should be grateful!
I agree. But it sounds like he’s been begging for this beatdown for a long time.
Maybe this will cure the crazy and maybe he will start to act more intelligently.
Hopefully. I’m not a massive fan of him but I wouldn’t want to see him, or anyone else for that matter, hurt.
CR,
I don’t know much about Shia’s alcholism or any other actor’s -ism when acting out this way. I appreciate what you know and can share while respecting their “maybe” problem. I think it has got to be extremely difficult to be in an actor’s situation when they are dealing with aggressive fans/paps and are dealing with their own demons.
Everyone,
Now if the actor just thinks they can take someone on because they did it in a movie, well that’s stupid. Ok, I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna bring her up. It seems Kristen Stewart has injured herself several times on different sets. I don’t know what stunts she’s doing, but maybe she shouldn’t be doing them. Doesn’t that hold up production time and costs? Plus, a concern I see as a parent is this, “Well so-and-so does his own stunts so it can’t be that bad. If he/she can do it, so can I.”
I do realize kids do stupid stunts all the time even if they are told DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME, but I think there is more of an inclination to try something if someone they look up to does it.
LB-
U Said: “Now if the actor just thinks they can take someone on because they did it in a movie, well that’s stupid.”
OB: Believe it or not many are buckling under peer pressure to do them. Action films are popular and young actors are filling these roles these days. Yes CGI is being used but still the idea of reducing the amount of CGI for more authentic stunts is all the rage and some actors want to appear tough or stay in character by performing their stunts. Yet I don’t think actors can easily turn off the superhuman character off sett. Does that make sense?
ABsolutely and I think it is still wrong! Wrong of the filmmakers and wrong of the studios. I think a confident and secure, intelligent actor/actress know their limits and are ok with having someone else do the dangerous work.
What you are saying makes me think these individuals must have some self esteem issues whether it’s falling to peer pressure or thinking too much of themself.
Here’s the thing LB actors get stereotyped and locked into playing a certain role. Comedians are great examples of this. Shia use to perform standup before becomming an actor. So what u have is him either being insecure by trying to become this tough reckless persona off sett. Also, he’s a professional comedian who can easily reduce and emabrass a not so quick witted fan twice his size. Now all of this is just speculation on my part.
Thank you for the info.
Here’s another participant of the production who get the blame when actors are foolish. Stunt men and women are not just there to do the stunts but also should be councelling actors that they should not be over extending themselves.
OB,
Going back to your question regarding who’s to blame the fans or the actor. I still can’t answer this but It’s the fans who are the extreme wild card and are ultimately the least predicable.
Because this actor has been in a lot of projects, yet is not an A-lister, many may not know who DJ Qualls is. But his treatment by the Police has some similarities to what happened to Shia.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/24/dj-qualls-vancouver-police-fight-hospital-twitter-emergency-room/
Recently this event was posted on Youtube and was reported on by TMZ. Concerning Jaime Fox..
Incidentally Jamie’s misfortune may not appear to be as scary of Shia’s abuse yet because of the commentary in the second video this made me wonder whether this event may have been PR.
Probably isn’t, But I still wonder.
hello all..
Hi Francesa! Glad to see you. 🙂 Hope all is well.
Hi Francesa.
Hi Francesa!
Hi Francesa
What happened to your avatar? Do u mind if I call u Ex?
Yes, what should we call you?
What actors are known for doing their own stunts?
I can think of Tom Cruise (naturally). Who else does at least 90% if not all their stunts? Didn’t Taylor Lautner do most of his stunts in Abduction?
Tom Cruise, Angelina Jolie, Matt Damon, Jackie Chan, Christian Bale,
Heres a list
http://blog.moviefone.com/2010/11/08/actors-who-do-their-own-stunts/
Thanks OB,
That list should be circulated as the “Idiots guide to mapping out an acting carrier.” I wonder whether any of this stupidity will ever change before an actor gets really hurt.
Thank you OB!
I do believe that Taylor Lautner did all if not most of his own stunts in the “D” movie Abduction. At least that is what the buzz was in the theater.
And according to you this did not improve the movie. Intended or not, I guess this is another plug for stuntmen.
Trying to catch up. I would find it very hard to believe an actor would put himself out there to fight some random person. One would think that there would be clauses etc in contracts. I know for a fact in some athletes contracts they have all kinds of things in them, such as: they cannot drive over certain speed limits, cannot drive motorcycles etc. I know athletes are not the same as actors, but from a liability insurance standpoint, the person is the money
ITA: I hope an actor would not open themselves up to random people given they can easily be sued etc…. Plus u have these idiot paps trying to trump up stories. I think athletes clauses are a lot more detailed then actors regarding dealing with fans and or their reckless public behavior. No?
CR
No I did not think it improved the movie. But with that being said, he was just not a very good actor in this. I don’t know if another actor doing the same could have done better.
Stab, stab, and then “here’s a hershey’s kiss for your troubles”.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….
Even with a new name, you never fail to please.
He was not a very good actor because he was focusing on the wrong thing. I mean how can u focus on acting when u are trying to compete with the stunt crew?
Maybe this option was the only choice he thought he had.
True! He’s to young to really hold it against him. But that’s why I say u need to be careful about how far u get out there. Otherwise the bigger the exposure the harder it is to recover from crap….
CR U Said: ” Going back to your question regarding who’s to blame the fans or the actor. I still can’t answer this but It’s the fans who are the extreme wild card and are ultimately the least predicable.”
ITA: Fans are the wild card here. Plus u have fans being paid to instigate fights with actors to get stories for paps etc…. Besides discussing this issue like we are now to bring awareness. How can actors protect themselves when mingling with the general public. They can’t have Bodygurads 24/7.
OB,
That is such a hard question, yet as you said your self paps want to get paid. The fat guy who beat the ____ out of Shia had no discernable motivation other than whatever was said in the bar.
• He could be out of work making himself feel better beating up a 4 million dollar a film punching bag.
• Street fights can get really ugly with the loser getting their skull stompted on
• I’ve seen street fights where the winner urinates on the loser.
Thank God there was a crowd around to keep this incident from being worse.
EUREKA: here’s my vote. IT’S THE ACTOR’S JOB TO KEEP THINGS CIVIL, RESPONSIBLE, AND SANE. I AGREE THEY CAN”T ALWAYS HAVE BODY GUARDS; but let’s face it, THEY HAVE THE MOST TO LOOSE.
ITA I think the fans are at times over zealous when it comes to certain actors. The ones that seem to draw an older type audience don’t seem to have the problems that the younger ones have. Maybe that is to simplistic, but maybe it is more of a maturity thing?? IDK just my mush mind wandering
IA about the maturity of the fans in conjunction with the actors. 🙂
True!!
That is a great point! I think younger actors tend to “act” more mature than they are where as older ones just want to enjoy their privacy and life.
OB maybe it was a money thing. Are they paid more to do their own stunts, one would assume. If he is trying to capitalize on his Twilight fame and get as much as he can in the shortest amount of time…..
This is an interest possibility, but is an actor really going to diminish the need for a stuntman?
Probably not. Running around telling people you will do all of your own stunts makes you a tool and ultimately an enemy of the stunt men and women’s union.
An actor should have a much greater respect for these professionals and should show more self respect by supporting actors unions attempts to protect artists.
Standing O!! CR…. Take a bow….High five!! etc……
I concur! I think stuntmen and women are deeply undervalued. They do some amazing feats and I cannot even imagine the war wounds they get and they have been trained properly and professionally.
Tthanks.
Thanks.
An actor who wants to do their own stunts is a monkey not an artist.
I really think Jackie Chan is a hilarious comedian but his failure at protecting himself will probably shorten his career. His artistry is so much more important.
EX-
I’m sure it is a money thing. Everything in HW boils down to it ultimately. Yet, artist should not sell themselves out like that it reduces their craft. Yes, I know this is idealist approach when u are a poor out of work actor. However, if artist don’t first draw some boundaries how can they expect people to take them seriously on and off sett? That’s why I think young actors need to be well educated to make sound choices. Like I said u have actors being encouraged to weigh 100 lbs. to look like teens then do their own stunts?? It’s a little ironic.I mean these young actors career or money won’t last for long under these conditions.
So we talked about actors off sett being challenged by fans wanting attention or bragging rights off sett. However, we briefly discussed getting hurt on sett.
If an actor gets hurt during filming what message does that send to fans? Does it make them look tough or vulnerable and easy to pick on?
From teens and adults I have talked to about this over the years, most don’t understand why actors do their own stunts when they inevitably get hurt. I think it depends on the stunt too. I mean running and tripping is different from jumping 10 stories.
Plus doesn’t it cost the studio more waiting for an actor to heal when they could just have called in another stunt double?
it makes them look like a real person.
BINGO!! Paris…It makes them look like real people. Yet, WHY? We know they are actors? I think it’s impressive to see actors transform into different characters then see them switch back to being themselves. For example when u see some actors take on different accents & dialects etc… It helps audiences see it’s more internal then external abilities that matter. So often we focus on the physical abilities because it’s easier to understand and categorize.
I think they come off as kind of stupid if they do get hurt. Don’t get me wrong, I still feel concern for them. It just that they over reach themselves, when there’s perfectly good stunt actor available, who could of done the stunt and not get hurt.
I agree those who mastered physical humor are masters of their craft.
LB ITA with you. I do think it depends on the stunt. I think there are times when the actor needs to do the stunt. I know they can do wonders with cameras, angles and CGI, but I am sure that there are times that warrant the actor do the stunt.
I don’t think it makes them look weak or vulnerable if they get hurt, but you are correct it does cost the studio money.
Parisienne you are correct, it does make them look like a real person. And since society puts these people on pedalstals that is a good thing. They are like all of us. As my dad used to say, “They put there underwear on the same way we do every morning”
One leg at a time. 🙂
HAHAHAHA! I’ve heard that too from my mom!
LOL!! Classic…. Love it!
EVeryone, I need to go, but thank you for a great discussion. OB, great article topic! SEe you next time. 🙂
Bye LB!
I have to go everyone! have a good night!
Night Paris!
Good night LB. I am going to turn in myself. Have a great night.
Bye Francesa!
I’m going to leave also. Good article OB.
Goodnight Everyone!! Thanks for a great, great discussion.
LIH would like to thank everyone for participating in last nights discussion. We recognize we took on a sensitive and complex topic that can’t be summed up in just one article. In know way do we know what truly happened in these videos shown in this discussion. Yet, we used these videos to highlight a growing issue of concern.
We recognize actors who choose to do their own stunts should not be used to judge those who do not. After all at the end of the day what makes a actor/artist more valiant is their fortitude and not their athlectic attributes.