By Open Book
Last week when the news came out NBC passed on the Wonder Woman series. Many fans wanted to know what to expect for the 70 year old Super heroine. But we found Wonder Woman not getting picked up by NBC was a much bigger issue. Since last year Linked in Hollywood has been covering the critical condition of not only Wonder Woman but the fate of leading ladies in general. We wanted to know in this day and age when there are a ton of films catering to men’s interest (see article Male Perspective on Leading Ladies in Film) why are women not speaking out more? Well we posed the question to one our frequent visitors who comment here on Linked in Hollywood and here’s what they had to say.
“It seems that in today’s society women cannot be considered both. If a woman stands up for herself, others, or her beliefs, she is considered tough and bitchy. If she doesn’t stand up for herself, she’s considered a doormat and can’t think for herself.
Wonder Woman came out in the comics in 1941. Coincidentally, the term “Rosie the Riveter” was coined in 1942 by the women who were joining the work force during WWII. “Rosie” was not perfect. She was dedicated and hard working. Some “Rosie’s” were single. Some had families. All were brave by venturing into a world that was foreign to them. “Rosie” is more well-known than Wonder Woman since she is taught in our US history books, but I think Wonder Woman could have just as much an impact on our society.
Everyone knows Superman, Captain America, Batman, Spiderman, etc…But Wonder Woman seems to have slipped through the cracks. Why? I think there may be a fear among the male audience of a female super hero. I just think it’s really important that we can have a heroine that is both parts loving, kind, and peaceful with the mental and emotional strength, bravery, and courage.”
Sincerely,
Littlebells
Now it’s not fair to assume all men are afraid of strong women. Actually, one of our guest writers Comic Relief has been leading a crusade for Wonder Woman being shown on the big screen. He’s our go to guy for all things comic book related. Here’s what he had to say;
Dear DC/Warner brothers,
“We are writing to let you know that a fan base for Wonder Woman exists that we are not sure you are aware of. We believe you are unaware because despite Wonder woman’s 7o years in comics, (which you obviously support and enable) you frequently perform in a very conservative manner regarding her ongoing development. To spark discussion about the character we featured an article and discussion about the character regarding her scheduled fall TV show. We encourage you to review the results.
We believed we were all surprised at just how influential the character was. Some women claimed she was a role model and influence in their early child hood development. Some expressed disappointment at the possibility that a feature film might not be developed. Some claimed fear that men were too insecure to tolerate her presentation as a real world female.”
Comic Relief
After hearing the disheartening news about Wonder Woman, it took us some time to regroup to fully absorb her current situation. In an article written in 1943 seem to still be relevant today.
In a 1943 issue of The American Scholar, Marston wrote:
“Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don’t want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women’s strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.”
So we would like to pose some questions to our audience here on Linked in Hollywood. Do you want to see strong women portrayed in films and on TV? Do you think female actresses in Hollywood deserve better material written for them? Do you think there should be as many Super heroine films as Superhero films? If so please help us get the word out by signing our petition in support of Wonder Woman.
http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/fight4wonderwoman
comicreleaf
comicrelief2
Comic Relief
parisienne
littlebells
Lurker
ozzie20
Open Book
LIH
linkedinhollywood.com 
OB,
I think you are wonderful and captured our thoughts beautifully.
LB
*throwing roses on the stage*
No problem!
Ok, just doing some research because I am not a Comic book super heros connoisueur, and I stumbled across this:
http://www.superherodb.com/characters/
I recognize a few names but Wonder Woman is the only one I “know”. I don’t think many people outside the comic book world know them as well either.
CR, how recent are many of these heroines? Do you think any of them can compare or compete with Wonder Woman? Also, why do you think Wonder Woman has always remained a JLA fixture when other super heroines have come and gone (Hawk-girl and Black Canary–yes I had to look them up. 🙂 And I have way too many questions to ask you CR, so I will pop over to CHAT and post them there. I don’t want to get too far off WW topic.)
Interestingly, I had no idea Wonder woman was just the “secretary” for the Justice League. I guess the era dictated that as her position, but I wonder what her position would be today…..hmmm
Hi Everyone-
I hope u can join our discussion tonight I’m really looking forward to hearing what u have to say about this topic. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to attend tonight until later. However, I have asked Comic Relief to lead the discussion tonight and answer any of your Q regarding this topic. Oh! Please sign our petition. Take Care!
Thanks OB.
Hi everyone! I’m actually going to go lay down for a bit, but I will be here. 🙂
Littlebells,
I can’t speak for DC comics but super heroines like Hawkgirl (or woman) and Black Canary are extremely old as well. I would say Black Canary (seen on SMALLVILLE would be number-two popularity wise at DC, though she seems to have never really had her own ongoing title. Sales wise other more derivative heroines are like Supergirl, Powergirl, and Batgirl have a little more clout. Zatanna is the only other non-derivative (because no one really knowns her magician father) DC heroine who has sustained her own book. Her book hasn’t been around that long. She was created in the 1960’s.
Heroines like Ms. Marvel, Spider Woman, and recently Black Widow, (seen in Ironman II. Have had books in recent years. Actually Spider girl definitely has her own book right now. In terms of gender Marvel comics isn’t king, yet competitively it is always trying.
And Wonder Woman was a secretary at the early part of the Justice League history, in recent years most of that has been forgotten that.
What about SuperGirl too? Not just WW. Does anyone remember the SuperGirl movie with Helen Slater back in the 80’s? I used to run around my living room and jump off furniture pretending to be her. 🙂
LOL.
Wow, that was forever ago!!! I vaguely remember it. 🙂 haha!
(how are your PMs working?)
forgotten
The character Supergirl is alive and well.
She can’t be forgotten!!!!!!! NOOOOOOO. LOL although looking back on it now that movie was horrible. IMO.
In everyones opinion. I’ve never seen it.
don’t waste your time.
I wasn’t planning to but thanks for the tip.
I was watching on the news today a study (can’t remember where it was conducted off the top of my head)shows that girls outpaced boys in the classroom. Perhaps that could be one reason why t.v. shows/movies are male dominant because its been proven that girls are smarter than boys.
Paris,
You could be right. Not being any kind of doctor, I can neither confirm or deny you are right.
I’m not a doctor either but its interesting.
Speaking of women I amazed by how women are frequently more mature in relationships than men.
I read a story today say young men 18 to 25 in Australia, actually expressed they wanted less sex than most men of other nationalities. The explanation was different from their female counter parts, men of that age were less inclined to be committed to their relationships and therefore were distracted by all of the obligatory sex demanded by their steadies and girl friends.
I’m sorry I do not remember where I read this.
Wow. that’s interesting. What other nationalities were the Australian men compared to?
Probably in english speaking countries. Sorry, I can’t be more exact, I never thought I would ever repeat what I read.
The article probably seemed seemed like a joke because many probably think Aussies would behave the exact opposite.
The article mentioned that men of this age group were likely to spend so much time with there buddies, (playing video games etc.) that they were likely to not be as attentive to their more mature girlfriends.
I’m probably doing a horrible reporting job, so I’ll stop.
It’s the same in the UK I think. The new figures will be in soon. Around early August, the exam results come back.
Littlebells,
Can I ask why were you doing this research?
Because I m a comic book heroine moron and only know of Wonder Woman.
Hi LittleBells!
Hi Paris! 🙂
Even if that was the case, that database is really huge. I would take smaller bites.
Does anyone know why NBC passed on WW?
I’d like to know this too!
I’ve heard everything from: NBC just passed because it did not have room in its schedule to it was not very good.
oh. Do you think the show might get a re-write and then pitched again to NBC or pitched to another network?
I don’t know there is a possibility another company could pick it up but they all passed on it the first time.
I wish I could say I’m really sad it did not air. I really wanted to see it but I heard she was doing fairly odd things (history-wise) like killing people.
She is supposed to be an Amazon warrior, so killing really is not that odd for her in fact there is an big example of her doing this in her book within the last 5 years but that was a really special occasion.
Heroes like Wolverine have made killing passe’ but that just isn’t normally her character. She’s from an age where super heroes were generally responsible and lawful.
oh. 🙂
Hi everyone!
Hi Ozzie.
Hi!
˙i everyone! Just got caught up. Thanks for answering all my questions CR.
This is sort of on topic, but slightly off: I have always loved Shirley Mclaine because she usually portrays characters that are courageous, ballsy, and tough, but underneath is still very loving, kind, and compassionate. She let’s you see both sides. No she doesn’t have super powers and the characters are terribly flawed, but I like that she has characters that encompass so much depth.
I wouldn’t want Wonder Woman to be perfect. None of us are perfect, so it’s nice to have a role model that despite flaws, has some terrific qualities and characteristics.
Wonder Woman may still get her day on the big screen where she belongs. If Thor turned out well, WW could certainly be done as well.
CR, another reason for my research is we haven’t had any big movies with these heroines, so I was just curiously curious. 🙂
Yeah, your right. I think women have to show the kind of interest that they showed for the Twilight series. Without that I think she’s doomed.
The petition is smart to promise dollars and attention; this gets corporate heads scheming and planning.
I can see that, but if people are thinking Bella is a hero….well, I don’t. The Vampires and Wolves are cool, but I didn’t really see Bella as a heroine. If I’m wrong, please help me understand
oh there’s no way that Bella, the character, is a hero. She’s insecure, lacks self knowledge and whiny to no end.
Ok, thanks! I feel better. hahahaha!! 🙂
LOL yw, I wanted to reach through the book and strangle her.
Ditto!
🙂
Don’t even get me started on her and Jacob!
honestly, IMO, SM should have had her end up with Jacob. I’m Team Edward all the way but at the end of Eclipse. I was like “if you really love him then go be with him.” She never was like that toward Edward. I think she just used Edward so she could be immortal.
Why do you think Bella is seen as a heroine?
Just through listening to others talk about her. I’m talking about some serious eavesdropping. “She’s so strong taking on the Volturi!” “She’s not afraid of the Cullens or wolves!” “She’s so brave!” blah, blah, blah. All I could think about was how she won the freakin’ jackpot: she’ll never be poor! hahahaha!!!!
That’s true. She didn’t do any of that by herself though.
Exaaaaactly….And I’m sorry, but her super vampire power did not impress me. Ok, I’m about to go off on a tangent, so I better stop. 🙂 (Is your PM working?”
yeah. Finally. Tangent away because i want to too. LOL
I PM’ed you. try back please.
I think she was supposed to be the heroine. In the end her interest in sleeping with and building a relationship with a vampire family seemed a little crazy yet I’m not sure this was Myers’ intention. Also in the book you could tell she was very studious. She read a lot and seemed to have a mind of her own. Which could have explained her interest or acceptance of monsters.
In the movie she seems to be so assertive yet without any real reason. I never understood why her friends were such over achievers and all she did was hang out with the odd and feared Cullens or another group of outsiders Jacob’s community. Nor did I understand why they liked her.
Maybe I will understand after Breaking Dawn.
Breaking Dawn is just going to be weird. I wonder how close they will stay to the book.
hahahahahahaha!!!! 🙂
LOL.
I heard there were a lot of complaints about WW’s costume as well.
Yes, there were a lot of complaints. But I’m not sure this did not backfire on fans in general. This internet fan responsiveness phenomena is still new. It’s very easy for corp heads to interpret criticism as rejection.
Open Book reminded me that at the beginning of Twilight there were petitions to get rid of Robert Pattinson. Summit interpretted the complaints as fan commitment and kept the actor. Now fans can’t get enough of him.
Obviously DC/Warners did not react the same way to WW’s costume controversy.
Do you
think actresses are getting good material or do think they could be getting better?
IMO, I think it might be getting better.
I really liked Natalie Portman in Black Swan she didn’t have to be perfect and her psychological melt-down was really compelling.
Reese Witherspoon’s circus lead performer and ally then love interest to Jacob, was far more complex than most female roles of the past.
Speaking of the other end of the heroic spectrum, the mother in “The Fighter” was wasn’t meant to be the villian yet she was a terrible enabler and she was completely lost in her own delusion about her role in her son’s life.
I could go on.
I know women have a long way to go, but I’m glad you can see some progress.
This has been really fun, but I need to leave in 1O minutes. If you have any more questions I’ll try and answer before I go. If not I will return later and pick up what I missed.
Thanks for chatting with us! I enjoyed it. 🙂
Thank you from me too! 🙂
What do you think that women in HW in paticular can do to get better roles? Do you think the “glass ceiling” is lower for women in HW as compared to the regular workforce?
That’s a question for Open book. I don’t know.
THanks CR!!! 🙂
Thank you too. See you later.
Night CR!
Off to see Thor!!! FINALLY!!!!!!!!! SEe you next time. 🙂
LB,
Are you going right now?
Yes!! woohoo!!! WEll, out to eat and THEN to the theater!
ps. I’ve pm’d you a few times, but nothing back,so I will send a message now.
Night Ozzie!
ok.
Night Littlebells! Hope you enjoy the movie!
I’m going to PM you just to see if its working properly ok? This is driving me insane. LOL
Lol! Good news, it worked! More good news, I’ve started to get my email notification of me recieving pm. It was driving me insane!
Ozzie, are you still here?
Yes, I was just watching the end of a programme.
Well i’m going to go. GN everyone.
Night Paris!
What I find disturbing is that more women aren’t speaking out about the reduced number of leading ladies in films today. Has anyone noticed the change from say the 80’s and 90’s compared to today? Of course this kind of thing can appear to be frivolous with everything else going on in the world. But it’s really a reflection on how we view women as unimportant in our society that we don’t call attention to it. Wonder Woman poor script is just a symptom of the problem.
Ok, you are going to have to help me out because in my brain all movies get lost in this dark abyss of my brain.
What were some of the best films for women that came out in the 80s and 90s? I think of Steel Magnolias, Erin Brokovich, uh…Ok, that’s it at the moment. 🙂 haha!
As I watched Thor (great btw), I wondered what WW story line could possibly be. I couldn’t figure one out. There has to be something!
Good Q LB.
I would have to say Meg Ryan, Julia Roberts, Sandra Bullock, Renee Zellweger did well in the 80’s 90’s because there were so many starring roles for women.
Did u read the article on Men’s Perspective on Leading Ladies in film? It’s helpful as well. It’s mentioned in the article above.
Anyway, good Leading Lady films: When Harry Met Sally, Sleepless in Seattle, Bridget Jones Diary, Pretty Women, My Best Friends Wedding, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, The Matrix, Terminator, Fargo, Shakespeare in Love, Pulp Fiction, Kill Bill these are just a few.
In order of the films you mentioned:
Duh!
So sweet!
Hilarious!
Would love to go into one of those Rodeo Dr shops and get waited on!
Loved Cameron’s karaoke!
OMG, love Nia!
Didn’t see
I think Linda Hamilton gave her character balls of steel!
Faaahhrr-goooh! Oh mye gaaash!
Yes!
Craaaaa-zy!
Craaa-zy squared!
I think all of the females leads were very well cast. NOW what is it about these roles that make them so memorable?
Also, what happened with Meg Ryan? Why have Roberts and Bullock continued to be successful (despite some flops) and she’s faded out? Was it the business or personal life? Just asking sort of rhetorical questions, but feel free to share your thoughts. 🙂
Oh! Some other films I forgot to mention, Elizabeth, Sophie’s Choice, Out of Africa, Silk Wood, Thelma & Louise.
Anyway, I think all the films I mentioned were diverse for women. Not just Romcoms which were huge in the 80’s & 90’s but dramas, action, sci-fi bio-pics and period films etc.. I think these roles were memorable because the characters were complex and well developed and the scripts were strong.
Meg Ryan-I think her career took a nose dive because her main staple Romcoms started to dry up. Plus she was trying to transition out of romcoms by doing more dramas. While some of her non romcom films did well others did not and unfortunately it happened during a time when there was more competition and less to choose from. Then she disappeared for a long period and audiences moved on.
I love out of Africa and Thelma & Louise! You are right we need some better roles and movies for women.
CR,
I heard on talk radio today that DC comics is revamping their super heros, and starting Sept. 2011 the likes of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, will be releasing their early comics. They also mentioned that the Justice League was being updated along with costumes. Have you heard anything about this???? What do you think? why do you think they are doing this? Does it have to do with the super hero movies coming out?
Here it is:
http://skattertech.com/2011/06/dc-comics-announces-day-and-date-digital-distribution/
I realize it’s for the ebooks….but still, what do you think?
LB,
You know how we frequently have discussions about how Wonder Woman is 70 years old yet we’ve never seen her with powder blue hair, a cane or a walker. We’ll the reason why is comic book time moves much slower than our time and if that isn’t odd enough every five to ten years the major comic companies execute a major reboot. These reboots can take different forms yet to be honest it’s rarely universe wide.
DC comics as you heard will throw a giant reboot, (or as they say it “relaunch”) in September that will restart all of their books at issue one. Yes, it keeps the characters young but even better it makes great news and brings in new readers who will return to the books to see which aspects of their favorite characters have remained and what aspects have changed. All books can receive a giant face-lift, other characters will be re-imagined and of course new characters may be introduced also.
Though immensely contrived there is some logic to this event but probably not as scary as it initially sounded. Of course many are angry.
Here’s a preview of at the very least the costume changes… Check the middle of the page.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/dc_comics/news/?a=38469
Thank you so much CR!!
Honestly, looking at Miss-I-lift-weights-for-5-hours-every-day-and-look-like-I-injest-steroids-so-I-have-the-body-of-a-man Wonder Woman, I would rather see Granny WW with her bullet proof health identity bracelets and nurse shoes. 🙂
Why does WW have to look like a man??? She doesn’t look feminine AT ALL, and to be honest, I really am hating her look. Did you count the muscles in her quads? Good grief! Lay off the juice, sister! I hope they tone her down a bit.
For someone who is not a comic book buff, your articles have peaked my interest, and I am honestly looking forward to this “reboot”. I hope we are not disappointed.
And what’s with SM and no undies??? That just looks stupid! SM does NOT wear a unitard(that is noticeable). I actually LOL’d at some of the comments because I completely agreed with them.
I really enjoy hearing the voice of sanity. I’m sure others do too.
Here’s a less negative or more positive assessment.
http://www.ifanboy.com/content/articles/Dollars_and_Sense__Initial_Reaction_to_the_DC_Reboot.
Honestly as your first question suggested, I’m sure this is largely about the movies. Green Lantern will have become a nationally known action hero by September. Work on the Flash (bottom left) script, is in progress yet it’s anyone’s guess whether this film will appear before the JL movie. And of course SM and BM films are ongoing.
LB,
The only thing I believe the comics companies like more than than loyal buying public (the fanboys and girls) are hoards of new readers.
I think Guys like Wonder Woman in ways that appear disproportionate to women.
I wish we could get women like you to voice their opinions about the character this way she might veer more toward the realistic but since we do not hear these voices the status quo wins.
From time to time MS. magazine features articles celebrating Wonder Woman. Maybe inaffectively, I have posted a notice of the petition on their site.
I’m sure their are more effective ways to do this but I’m out of gas on this one. If you have any suggestions for how to improve this let me know?
Is it possible for me to write a letter to the “Big Cheeses”? I realize that probably won’t do a ton, but at least I would feel I did my part. Couldn’t hurt, right????
LB,
As much as I would like to agree with you, I think the number of people discussing Wonder Woman is huge. Positive and or negative everyone has an opinion. Yet what I believe is making a difference to the business heads and top brass is receipts. How many books is she selling, how many people are watching, and when are people placing advanced orders, etc. seem to have a most significant effect.
I could be wrong, but I think those activities that can be immediately converted into likely ticket sales, comic book purchases, and book buying will likely have the most impact.
THanks CR, and you would know better than me. They need to find another way to get WW back out to the rest of us who don’t buy or follow comics. I guess that was the point of the now cancelled series….Oh well.