Please welcome our guest author Comic Relief
If you have seen Director Joe Johnston’s recent trailers for Captain America: The First Avenger you no doubt recognize what a big a blockbuster Marvel Entertainment and Disney are planning for July 22, 2011. Yet before marching off to the theatres to see actor Chris Evans’ portrayal of the character, you might want to consider what you’re going to see. A super hero dressed up in patriotic colors in a WWII setting; what more is there to know? The answer should be plenty.
Created six months before Pearl Harbor1 in 1941, Captain America or Steve Rogers was a symbolic representation of the American spirit, yet some historian’s must be baffled by how this super hero came to embody so many fantasies that would later become or mimic recognizable historical fact in the actual world.(1) The overwhelming number of coincidences seems too remarkable to have “just happened” or just incidentally occurred.
Please watch video…
Given a serum to make him a super soldier, how could co-creators Joe Simon and Jack Kirby have known infamous Nazi doctor Josef Mengele was in fact trying, by way of horrific experiments, to manufacture a master race of super soldiers on his own. (2) German National Socialists claimed the Jews were destroying the German community of the time. Yet, Captain America’s eventual transformation into the super soldier appears to be enabled, in the trailer and the original comic story, by a Dr. Abraham Erskine (a not very veiled depiction of a likely Jewish scientist) played by Stanley Tucci.
Known to be of Irish decent in the comic, Rogers would ironically come to resemble Holocaust victims in a time of otherwise rampant Anti-Semitism. In Nazi occupied Europe, to enable immediate identification, Jews were frequently forced to wear “stars of David” badges on their arms.(3) Cap wears a star from the US flag right on his chest. Jews in Auschwitz, where Mengele began working after 1943, wore blue striped prison uniforms to distinguish them as religious minorities. Also derived from the American flag, Cap wore red vertical stripes on his uniform. (4) No, neither example is an absolute resemblance but aren’t these coincidences uncanny given the fact that the full ramifications of concentration camp life weren’t even known to the public before the end of the war?
And maybe one of the oddest physical resemblances of the character to the Jews was the character’s original physique. Though some might claim he has a closer superficial resemblance to Hitler’s Aryan ideal than what we might expect, Rogers puny and emaciated physique prior to the super serum looks a lot like the physical depictions of so many war ravaged concentration camp interned Jews after the war. How is any of this possible given the character was created long before we were fully informed about any of these atrocities??? And no the fact that the creators were Jewish does not solve this paradox entirely. Despite the racial origins of his creators, the character has always been extremely popular with all audiences since his inception in comics.
Speaking of the physique, this was one of the few aspects of the trailer that did not please this reviewer. Sure the CGI used to transform Rogers from the scrawny small statured individual to the more classically heroic looking Rogers was fantastic and fully represents the physical descriptions presented in the original comic book. But do these scenes resonate at a cost? Do period films really need to transport our thinking back to the physical prejudices of the original period of the movie to have any chance of being effective?
The physical transformation of the character is highlighted over and over again in the trailer’s scenes. Rogers gets beat up by a bigger and nastier colleague. Disgusted army doctors rejecting him as unfit. His eventual partner James ‘Bucky’ Barnes (played by actor Sebastian Stan) doubts his seriousness. All of these events occurring in relation to Tommy Lees Jones’s character Col. Chester Phillips’ voice over about how wars are won by men rather than weapons. All these vignettes seem to convict Steve Roger’s as being a tad bit unmanly.
Despite the Charles Atlas ads of the 50’s depicting how scrawny guys are prone to get sand kicked in their faces at the beach,(5) guys don’t always get back at the sand kicker by enrolling in the local gym. Some get better jobs and hire the sand kickers to do their yard work. Some are likely to tell their brawny chauffeurs to just stay in the Benz until they get back. And many who are attracted to smarter women just might not be at the meathead beaches in the first place.
So many recent movies describe the way intelligent men fight boneheads even when the odds are stacked against them, movies like Schindler’s List, Valkyrie and Inglorious Basterds are fairly explicit about describing how thinking men fight without resulting to Ramboisms.
Yet this may be a small point, obviously starting a movie this way or suggesting a narrative beginning in a trailer sets the filmmaker up for a big challenge. Many in the audience understand the cliché “it isn’t the size of the dog in the fight but size of the fight in the dog” that matters. Today soldiers like women, who were originally thought to be unfit for service, are typically decorated for demonstrating courage under fire. In our time of Viagra, Rogaine, and Ritalin, Johnson has set the bar really high to demonstrate that Steve Rogers is more than just a drug store super hero. Is his passion for military service as big and sculpted as his new body or are all of his solutions a matter of calling the pharmacist (and weapons engineer)? In fact, since most of the audience knows little of the character’s motivations, I would say the fate of the whole film depends on what audiences think of Roger’s character exploration or real heroic exposition.
Please join us for a discussion on this topic: Tuesday-4/12/2011@ 7pE/12UTC
- For more information about Steve Rogers comic book history please see: http://www.comicvine.com/captain-america/29-1442/
- For more information on Josef Mengele please see the documentary from http: firstrunfeatures.com, “The Search for Mengele”.
- For more information about holocaust badges please see http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/badges.html
- For more information about concentration camp uniforms please see http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/data.show.php?di=record&da=photos&ke=83.
- For a discussion of comic book derived discussions of masculinity http://www.cagle.com/hogan/features/atlas.asp
comicreleaf
comicrelief2
Comic Relief
parisienne
littlebells
Lurker
ozzie20
Open Book
LIH
linkedinhollywood.com 
I’m having a small issue I can’t get my reader to pickup your rss feed, I’m using google reader by the way.
Sorry you’re having difficulty. It does not appear to be the RSS source. I have tested with no issue.
I would suggest you try reading thru the Google Reader help to see if it’s a setting on your account.
http://www.google.com/reader/view/?tab=yy#welcome-page
Hi CR!
I just logged on and am excited to read your article. 🙂 It looks very informative!
LB
Hope I satisfied your expectations
CR,
Fantastic article! I did not know anything about the origins of Captain America, this is very fascinating. I think the Holocaust is an interesting piece of history because so many people blindly followed one evil person and from what it looks like not many people questioned him. I find the way the human works to be absolutely fascinating.
I meant to say human brain works.
I agree. Though I’m sure the movie will not discuss every thing about that period it hope it hits on some of the bigger attrocities.
CR,
Everything Paris said!
Great, informative article. Wow. I didn’t watch the trailer until after reading your article and it actually meant a bit more to me to do so. More at discussion!
Littlebells 🙂
Hello CR!
Great piece!
This super soldier theme seems to be popular in films being released this summer. See u at the discussion tomorrow night. I have a lot of Q.
Are you frickin serious? I hope not…
NYJ,
Though i don’t think i heard you, hope you made it to the discussion.
“We will win this war because we have the best men.”
That line wasn’t insinuating that Steve Rogers wasn’t manly. In fact it was saying just the opposite. Steve Rogers IS the best man, and that’s why he was chosen to be a candidate for the Super Soldier serum.
Indoraptor,
I was discussing the over all tone and collection of images. Hope you made the discussion.
If it wasn’t apparent I’m afan of the character as well.
Hi Everyone!
I probably won’t be able to make it tonight but I will definitely try. Have a Good Evening.
Hi Paris! I’ll be thinking of you. 🙂
hi littlebells!
Littlebells,
I missed a lot of opportunities to talk to you this week end. This is my belated “hello”.
No problem! 🙂
Paris
No problem! Although u will be missed!
Agreed or ditto.
Hi Everyone,
Welcome new and returning visitors to our discussion tonight. I will be leading the discussion and asking questions of the author and audience. But please feel free to jump in and add your own questions or answers at any time.
Hi Everyone!
First let me say to Comic Relief, a great article!
Very thought provoking.
I am looking forward to the discussion tonight!
🙂
Hi Lurker!
How are u?
Great!
Lurker,
What intrigued u most about this article?
I really enjoyed how CR pulled on the historical themes from WW2 and highlighted the movie ‘innuendos’ or veiled references to some of the events. I would say you almost have to already know about them to ‘get the references’ during the movie. In that regard, they don’t have to be treated as a historical reference, but they bring in the full picture of the period.
I wonder how many people will pay attention to them and understand them during the movie.
I know I wonder who will pick up on those themes as well. I mean u would need to know about history to get it.
CR! What do u think? Do u think people will get these veiled references?
Wow, I feel like I can go home now. (I won’t) that was very complimentary. Thanks again.
Thanks Lurker
Thanks Lurker.
Welcome CR! Great Article….
You are our first male guest writer on LIH. What attracted you to write this particular article for LIH?
Wow, great article CR! I don’t know anything about Captin America, so it was really helpfull to read your thoughts and views on it!
Hi, Ozzie.
Hi to you too! 🙂
Hi Ozzie!
Hi Open Book!
Hi Open Book.
Well I was impressed by your coverage of other Hollowood phenomena. Like this site’s previous title, “the Hollywood Intellectual”, your crew seems to be really interested in making the Hollywood entertainment experience an interesting thinking person’s recreational event.
Because the trend is so prevalent (comic book movies and cinema), you guys have done an excellent job of discussing the topic before. I wanted to draw attention to that success in my article but ran out of space. Sorry.
Obviously, I wanted to talk about this genre.
I’m sorry i did not have an opportunity to respond to all of the message above maybe I can do that later.
Thanks CR!
Well we are glad to have u join us. I don’t think many of us really know about comics or the whole history. So this is really a great and informative article.
So I have a few Q for u.
Fire away.
CR,
Yes, I really do like thinking movies. Obviously I want entertainment, but I like to think about it, digest it, see what there was in the film that applies to my life or life in general. I like movies that get people to discuss ideas, theories, morals, etc…not having known the origin of CA, this article was very interesting and thought provoking.
Thanks alot.
To: CR and Everyone,
What alternative could have been chosen to illustrate the genesis of CA’s powers?
I’m a fan of the comic book origin. Honestly, I don’t believe the origin has ever been realized this well on film! What I did not like was the directorial emphasis on body transformation as character transformation. Since no one has seen it, this may not happen at all in the film. Yes, I realize that.
One of my best friends works on trailers in Hollywood. So I know building a provocative trailer, may not represent the ideas of the screen writers, actors, directors, producers, or studio. Yet as a consumer this is the first thing I (or we) see. This should explain my point of view.
Regarding the trailer, I wonder how much of that was to pull in the drooling female audience for Chris Evans! (LOL)
By that response, I guess they succeeded.
Well it gets the female audience to the theatre even if they don’t understand Captain America’s origins! (LOL)
We’ll go back to our box office discussion = ticket sales!
Guys for the Capt America story and the war a story and the women for Chris Evans.
How can they loose?
LOL
LOL
U two need a comedy act. Goodness!!
haha!
Yeah! I thought it was a very superficial premise on how to build one’s character.
I will give everyone a chance to respond to your answer.
In all seriousness, the military does emphasize physical fitness. While ‘overnight’ they don’t change by way of a super serum, the men and women do not escape fitness. Better stronger, faster (add in the bionic man theme music).
nanananananana….nananananananaa!!!!
True! Those values are really positive examples. I think what is also a great example that would have been nice to see is hard work. Service men and women are some of the hardest working people in this country with little reward and a lot of sacrifice.
To CR!
Do u think fans would have accepted a more progressive depiction of CA?
If you mean by “progressive” an acknowledgment of realistic gender presentation, historical influences, and ugly real world politics, yes I did. I still believe many in Hollywood still believe a superheo movie is really about tights, capes, and red boots. Of course many times it is; but after Nolan’s work I thought we were beyond this but obviously this is not always the case.
Great answer. Would anyone like to respond?
Not the case, look at all the hoopla with Wonder Woman!
Holy smoke the uproar over her costume!
The Red boots came back.
Lurker, you make my job so easy… Thanks so much.
So let me try to be serious for a second.
As I have recently been paying attention, it seems like the ‘fan base’ is pushing for demands toward authenticity with these recent depictions of comic book heros.
What’s your take on that being a long time fan?
I think you are absolutely right.
I don’t think it would be unfair to say favreau and nolan started a trend toward insisting on more realistic non super powered heroes.
yeah, that was crazy, but I have to say, she did look like a $3 hooker. I don’t mind so much the costumes, but I wish the story lines were more….realistic? I think staying true with costumes keeps the authentic tone and true spirit of the character, but our times are different, and it would be nice to see Superheroes taking on the…I don’t know…US government? heehee
How about Wall Street?
haha! Let’s add mortgage lenders too!
I wish CA was more modern in the sense of taking place in present day. I feel it would have more relevance. ????
I’m going to agree with you OB. When I saw the trailer and watched Chris enter that capsule a scrawny dude and then come out pumped full of iron, I was thinking, “Really? Just like that?” What happened to just being person of upstanding values, morals, integrity to battle evil? But then I guess “they” were trying to make a superior soldier, who apparently needs big muscles.
For CR: who are the soldiers that CA is fighting against. I couldn’t figure it out in the trailer? ARe they human? Machines?
Littlebells,
Standing O!
I really agree with u. I like to think film audiences have evolved beyond these shallow plots and can handle complex ideas.
LB,
That’s hilarious. Yet in Comic books somes times characters end up with incredible results without doing any work.
That’s what i meant by the directors or trailer producers stacked the deck against themselves. Now they have to prove Steve Rogers is a hero.
You are absolutely right the antgonists go almost unmentioned.
Oops maybe I should correct that. Some times characters end up with incredible abilities without doing alot of work.
If the origin is well told audiences except the attribution, if not they don’t.
Because it is a creative endevor, far more characters fail than succeeed.
That makes sense. I guess as long as the character has proven he or she is worthy of that incredible ability, I’ll let it slide. 🙂
To CR!
Do you think this film sends a bad message by only focusing on the value of people’s physical attributes?
I think only the trailer risks that. I’m hoping the film does differently because I think the character is important contribution to patriotic americana. I’m not like other fanboys who think the film should be an an exact replica of the comic book. Thanks to Sam Raimi, Tobey Maguire’s Spiderman was far more nerdy than the Peter Parker of the the time in comics. Nolan’s Batmobile was far more rational than the custom car batmoblie of the Comics at the time. Christopher Reeves Clark Kent was actually realistically funny, making Superman far more likeable than the George Reeve version of the ’50’s.
I think of the comic book only being the blue print that the film company should collaborativly (grossly) enhance. Yet obviously this does not always happen.
I’m hoping that we see Roger’s personality mature and grow as he takes on this new transformation.
Amen.
I hope we see the transformation into him becoming the embodiment of the cause. Him carrying the mantle so to speak. That’s what being the hero is about, the visual manifestation of the cause.
Batman takes on the cause of criminals.
Superman saves everyone from catastrophe.
WonderWoman makes people tell the truth.
Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!!! Out of curiosity what is CA”s cause?
Lurker and LB,
Remember he was trained to be a soldier so much of MO is defined by the military. This is when he is n’t taking on super hero stuff on his own.
I hope I am not over simplifying.
Well said Lurker!
See I agree. I think films should enhance the source material make it more exaggerated as oppose to an exact replica. I mean, times change and technology gets better etc… Acting, directing and writers get better. LOL!!
CR: once Rogers is transformed, does he naturally know how to do everything perfectly or does he still need some form of training?
I think the comic books suggest some training. I’m not a Captain America scholar so I’m afraid to say this but some comic books may have suggested the serum was enough given that Rogers is fairly inept coordination and strength wise in the beginning.
Great question.
Well that”s lame….
Does he have any continued weaknesses? Usually, the ability to connect to superheroes is that there’s still some weak human like element that we can emphasize with.
Hi Ozzie! Great question, btw.
Hi Littlebells!
Also, the enemy seems to be some super engeneered Nazi army? Is that correct? The trailer only showed a very brief clip of it. Blink and you miss it kind of thing!
Agreed. They spent so much time emphasizing the scrawny to buff transformation there wasn’t time to discuss his enemies.
Thank you, now I’m not so confused. haha!
Ozzie!
See I would love to see your idea played out. It would make it more compelling.
CR: is Roger’s only weaknesses being scrawny and physically incapable of being a soldier without the aid of the serum? I really like Ozzie’s comment because NO ONE is perfect and that’s true in many of the recent superheroes. I especially like Bale’s portrayal of Batman because despite his ability to get criminals, he is still very human.
I don’t believe so. Batman is one of the few heroes who I’ve noticed talking about continuous training. I hope I am not wrong.
Again I am not a Captain America scholar, so I don’t want to say the serum has held him for his entire career. Somehow I’m sure someone has seen him working out in the Avengers mansion. I but I honestly do not know. Sorry.
Yet I absolutely agree continued training makes easier to identify with.
To CR!
Why do u think men like to identify success with great physical strength when great mental capacity is really what’s behind success?
Please answer Littlebells Q first.
I think I answered LB.
Who doesn’t want to be at their peak physical condition or potential. What guy doesn’t fantacize about being at their tallest, thinnest, strongest (possibly brawniest), and have the most endurance; able to perform to their atheletic or sexual best. I certainly do not want to deprive this of anyone; I fantacize about these things myself.
Athletes aside, if you think these attributes are you; I think life’s complexities will make you very sad or drive you mad. I believe in fantacizing minimally is O.K. But I think we should be wary if we fantacize more than that.
Germany’s National Socialists believed in these kinds of unattainable Supermen and villified people when they actually worked to make more of themselves. So to avoid getting on the path to fascism, we should check our beliefs. Captain America may be able to help us with that. That’s one of the reasons I why drew attention to how much his uniform resembled concentration camp internees.
True, they believed it was genetic in a particular segment of the population and experimented on everyone else. They failed on their understanding of what the human body is capable of given the right nutrition and exercise. But that has only been in the last 30 years or so.
IMO: I thought CA costume could symbolize concentration camp victims fighting back. What do u think about that theory?
How about CA being the ‘rescuer-hero’ for those trapped in the concentration camps for a theory?
That could work!!
I’m sure your theory is more in line with what they were going for.
It’s just I’m a fan of a lot of documentaries of jews who fought back against Germany and Hitler. So I’m always looking to see this played out on screen.
Have you been to the museum in DC?
I assume then you also are a big fan of the Diary of Anne Frank?
Yes! I am….
I have to admit Schindler’s List and Life is Beautiful are two very memorable movies for me perosnally.
The DC Holocaust museum was particularly unnerving for me. I left with this feeling of horror and sadness.
Lurker!
I have not been to the DC Holocaust Museum. I was referring to the Diary of Anne Frank book I have read. I have also seen a lot of documentaries etc…. I don’t think I could endure going to the DC Museum.
Did you get a chance to read that book i mentioned to you last year?
The invisible bridge?
Same topic!
I have read and seen my share of material on this topic. Its a sad period in human history that irks some people want to suggest it didn’t happen. I just SMH.
I agree yet his adventures are ongoing. Joined with his original sidekick Bucky, (actually introduced in the movie) he has a new WWII comics series where all of that may be explored.
I said that appreciating the ethnic/racial description of his creators; I’m not sure I have ever seen this actually emphasized in the comics.
Oh that is interesting. So I’ll have to keep an eye out for that when i watch the movie now!
CR!
You mentioned films like Schindler’s List and Inglorious Bastards as films that depict how smart people fight. What are the best superhero films that demonstrate how smart people fight?
Obviously, superheroes who have no super powers are the easiest to name. Batman, and Ironman shares this distinction with Captain America. They don’t wear tights but character stand outs like James Bond, Sherlock Holmes, and Indiana Jones are are men who are phenomenal for the self-training and experience they have provided themselves.
Characterization is everything when you’re talking about bringing super-powered heroes into a live action theatrical presentation. As with Spiderman, this is not an easy task but this is why few people have done it well.
CR: I just found this and I like how it explained how CA isn’t perfect.
“And part of the attraction was that Steve Rogers never became excessively gifted; he wasn’t invulnerable – he was just tougher and braver and smarter than anyone else.”
http://www.superherostuff.com/Biographies/CaptainamericaBiography.html
That makes me like him more…
I believe that’s why most fans love the character.
I really like this CA. It would be nice to see this enhanced on screen.
From your lips to God’s ears!
I need to go, but I just wanted to thank you for another great discussion. CR, I am really excited to see this movie now that I have more info. OB, do you think we can have a follow up once the film is out?
LB, that sounds like a great idea! We have some great summer movies coming that would be something fun to do!
I saw Arthur last night with the hubs and I am DYING to talk about that one too! haha! 🙂
LOL! Yes u must give a review on Friday.
I’m heading to see The Conspirator and I’m sure I’ll pick apart the history if they get it wrong! It was filmed in Savannah GA.
But it’s a redford movie, and Tom Wilkinson is in it. So I’m hoping it will be good.
See you LB. Thanks for coming.
And I was hoping to talk about the actual film, which none but a few have actually seen. Yeah the trailer is an event, but the film was the point of the whole endeavor.
Well us ‘consumers’ haven’t seen the film yet!
SOON 😉
See u Littlebells!
Thanks for joining us.
Night LittleBells!
Do u think comic audiences are attracted to cool visuals or complex plots?
Absolutely. Despite a lot of the negative press about them, fanboys are frequently attracted to literature, film and theatre when so many of their peers may be obsessed with girls or sports. I’m not knocking either of those obsessions yet I think its necessary to give credit where it is due.
That’s True!!
Why do men believe women are attracted to brawny men rather then smart men?
Mainly because men are so physically focussed; unfortunately I think this is in the genes. I’m not a biologist, anthropologist or have any of those credentials, yet I’ve heard men are like this for survival so they can find good mates. So men think if they are convinced by every curve of a women’s body; women must look at us the same way.
Yet, I think this is only partially the truth. Women change their appaisal of men faster.
I believe women move beyond these physical (sometimes coincidences) faster than men. They may sleep with a hunky man for the experience yet they ultimately know smarts get you through this life and pecs, abs, delts, tri’s and bi’s will eventually disappear unless you are a professional model or body buildier.
Without showing my age too much, it’s about bringing home the bacon at the end of the day and you need smarts for that!
Standing O!! I second that and raise u one. There’s something about being able to hold an intelligent conversation at the dinner table as well. NO COUCH POTATOES!!!
LOL.
Great Answer!
Lurker and Ozzie,
What do u think?
sorry. Actually a lot of them are atracted to girls and sports as well. “Fanboys” and “girls and sports” are not mutually exclusive. Many do both.
ERRRGHHH.
Now I feel bad.
LOL!!
Night everyone!!
Goodnight!
A lot of Fan boy were not convinced by Evans casting as the lead. I did not agree. Evans has a healthy appreciation of the field and thank God doesn’t take himself too seriously. Some actors are way to pretentious to put on the suit. In incidentally fit the physical characteristics yet realized this was an acting job. I can’t say a lot of others in the past, who played super heroes, actually understood that. Body builders and even professional actors tended to assume this kind of assignment was really an opportunity to be glib or campy.
Directors like Sam Raimi, Chris Nolan, Jon Favreau have helped change this perception I think for good. Productions like Super still don’t seem to know this even though there are actors like Rain Wilson and Ellen Page that I like.
Do you plan to see this film?
I will be seeing it along with my list of summer movies!
I agree a lot of actors are turned off by Superhero films because they tend to be very limiting. Plus the costume is always a turn off.
Yes! Of course I would like to see the final production…. I’m intrigued to see how it all works out. There’s no way u can judge how a film will be by the trailers.
CR and Everyone,
I have two final questions for CR before we end the discussion in twenty minutes.
So if u have any Q please feel free to ask as well.
1. Do u think CA will be successful?
2. Do u like CA even though the premise is not very progressive in terms of stereotypes
Do u think CA will be successful?
This character has been around for 70 years. If the trailer doesn’t represent the movie, and maybe even if it does, I see very little reason the movie will not be successful.
Do u like CA even though the premise is not very progressive in terms of stereotypes?
Again I am very hopeful because he is an important character.
To me this is the very best presentation of this character ever made. I believe there have been at least three. One feature film before the 50’s. Possibly another feature film, yet I’m not sure because I saw snippets of two on TV. Because of all of the hype regarding this version, one was recently reissued.
Lurker and Ozzie
Do u have anymore Q or answers for Comic Relief?
None for me!
Thank you for your article CR and for joining us tonight!
Join us again! 😉
Nope, I have no more questions to ask. My brain has decided to completely shut down for the night! But it’s been great to look at a different topic that I don’t normally think too much about!
I am super curious to see what the international box office ticket sales will be on this movie.
Now I can’t wait to talk about that I just did not have a chance to fit that in. I again I apologize for that.
Gotta go. Thanks a lot of the opportunity.
“for the opportunity”.
Me too!!
Lurker-Hmm! U know what I’m thinking?
Anyway! CR thanks for the wonderful article and great discussion.
Yes, please join us again!!
Goodnight Everyone!!
Night all!
Very nice site!