The Price of Entertainment: Part-1

23 Mar

By: Parisienne

Ringling Bros and Barnum & Bailey Circus.  Is it the happiest show on Earth?  Maybe it is for consumers who pay to be entertained.  However, it is not a happy place for the elephants.  An investigation completed in 2009, found that the eleven elephants were abused with bull hooks, according to PETA.  The information obtained in this investigation has a video along with an article.  Please watch video.

Vodpod videos no longer available.

According to an Elephant Fact Sheet, which is found along with court documents for a trial against the circus for abuse to animals.[1] The ruling was found to be in favor of Ringling Bros, due to the fact that one of the witnesses was found to not be credible.   Feld Entertainment, Inc. claims that the elephants are well cared for by veterinary staff and all of their needs are provided for.

After researching the material for and against the treatment of animals in circuses, its clear animals should not be mistreated in any way.  There is always a humane way to teach animals how to perform in front of an audience, which will be discussed in Part-2 of this series. What are your thoughts?

Please join us to discuss on Thurs 3/24 7p E /12 UTC

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124 Responses to “The Price of Entertainment: Part-1”

  1. Littlebells March 23, 2011 at 10:28 AM #

    Ok, I’m gonna be sick. Like, I’m starting to cry right now because I don’t care if it’s a flick on the head or a bull hook or anything else, IT IS NOT RIGHT! And the stupid morons (people doing this) are doing it to one of the most smart creatures ever. The elephants won’t forget it and believe me if they had their chance…..Ok, I’m getting too worked up.

    Let me go back and first say thank you, Paris, for this great article. It definitely reminds me why I don’t go to circuses. I can’t trust what the “man” says about keeping his animals protected, so why go support his business.

    Humans are stupid because we are the only creatures on this earth who do things to others just for the heck of it, because we can, and other dumb purposes. Animals only hurt each other for survival: to eat or to mate. They don’t go around beating on each other for entertainment value or because another animal crossed them.

    Geez, I need to stop talking because I’m just going to go on and on.

    Summary: Absolutely despicable and yes there are other ways to train and handle animals. I don’t know how to do it, but if I were put into a situation where I had to train an elephant (bear, etc…) I would definitely learn it.

  2. Littlebells March 23, 2011 at 10:32 AM #

    Oh, and I would like to send my condolences to Elizabeth Taylor’s family. She was an astounding actress and her movies will live on and on. Thank you Elizabeth for showing us how it’s done!

  3. ozzie20 March 23, 2011 at 3:33 PM #

    I had to stop watching half way through. Sorry, I just couldn’t watch anymore. I don’t understand the need to hit them. They’re intelligent creatures, they’ll respond to words. If I had an elephant I’d treat it the same as the horses I’ve delt with. Talking to them in a firm voice, tapping them and gently guiding them. For example, when cleaning their hoof, you run your hands down it’s legs. One had stays at the knee joint and the other continues down to the hoof. Then you gently begin to bend the knee and lift the hoof. The horse then understands and lifts his leg. Some all I’ve had to do is tap their leg and say “hoof” and it picks it’s leg up. That’s how I was taught to do it anyway. There’s no need for screaming, hitting or wipping.

    • Littlebells March 23, 2011 at 3:44 PM #

      Oh Ozzie, I didn’t even get through the first 10 seconds….

      • ozzie20 March 24, 2011 at 7:53 PM #

        I don’t blame you.

        • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:55 PM #

          hi ozzie!

          • ozzie20 March 24, 2011 at 7:57 PM #

            Hello! Sorry I wasn’t here last time. My computer played up again.

  4. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 6:52 PM #

    Hello Everyone!

  5. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 6:52 PM #

    testing

  6. Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:00 PM #

    Hello Paris,

    This is so sad to see. With all the evidence by PETA documenting this abuse of circus animals. What’s being done to stop this abuse today?

    • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM #

      Hi everyone!

      • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:02 PM #

        Hi!

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:02 PM #

        hi!

  7. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:02 PM #

    not much from what i could find because the court case that is cited in the ringling bros trial case found that the main witness was paid 190,000 dollars over a period of 8 years to lie on behalf of the animal welfare groups.

    • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:04 PM #

      Well what about this video? I mean this is pretty revealing. No!!

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:07 PM #

        i know but according to their court docs. the witness never saw any abuse to animals.

    • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 7:05 PM #

      Well that shoots down their credibility completely!
      No wonder the video is not admissable.

  8. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:03 PM #

    hi lurker!

    • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 7:07 PM #

      Howdee, sad video footage, darn shame it can’t be admitted in court.

  9. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:09 PM #

    that links explains that the main witness the ASPCA was using was paid by the ASPCA to lie and that all treatment of the elephants is humane.

  10. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:11 PM #

    does anyone know how to get the video to stop playing?

    • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 7:11 PM #

      I might be me – they way I embedded it.

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:12 PM #

        oh.

        • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM #

          nope it’s the source – it’s on autoplay.
          I flagged it as broken.

  11. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:12 PM #

    did anyone watch the entire video?

    • kim March 24, 2011 at 7:21 PM #

      Yes, without sound, but yeah. It was quite disturbing.

  12. Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:12 PM #

    Why can’t there be a state law passed to prohibit animal circuses?

  13. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:13 PM #

    according to the courts Ringling and Feld did nothing wrong so they won’t stop.

  14. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:14 PM #

    as long as people pay to see it they will continue.

  15. kim March 24, 2011 at 7:15 PM #

    Sorry I was late, I didn’t realize the time.

    That does become a problem if the witness was bribed, makes it hard to prosecute.

    I’m surprised though I mean when animals film on a movie or t.v.set there has to be a humane society on the set to monitor things. Why can’t there be more to do for these incidents.

  16. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:15 PM #

    According to ringling they have full time vets that travel with the circus and care for the elephants.

    • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:20 PM #

      There are plenty of examples of elephants killing these circus trainers who use bull hooks. That’s to me should be a clue this type of training should be stopped.

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:23 PM #

        Open Book,

        Did you watch the entire video? A “trainer” uses a bullhook on one of the elephants and elephant just moved backward.

        • kim March 24, 2011 at 7:28 PM #

          Actually I have to say what I have heard from filming of WFE, when they showed the abuse that Rosie endures, they really took precautions to insurance that there was nothing that crossed the line.

          So maybe this will help bring attention to this cause.

          • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:31 PM #

            i read that too Kim.

            • ozzie20 March 24, 2011 at 7:56 PM #

              Yes, I read that during those scenes no one hit her and the wounds will be done by CGI.

              • ozzie20 March 24, 2011 at 8:25 PM #

                Found it! Production notes! Scroll down to the actual notes and it’s on page 6 & 7.

                Off to find something else I may have read!

        • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:29 PM #

          Yes! This is so sad. It looks like the elephant is about ready to let him have it.

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:25 PM #

        i agree but as long as the ASPCA doesn’t gather evidence properly nothing they say will stand up in court.

      • kim March 24, 2011 at 7:25 PM #

        Yeah I have seen many shows showing how animals, especially elephants because of their memory and intelligence, remember what is done to them. Most of the time when an elephant goes on a rampage its because of abuse.

        That of course is for any animal, we have seen footage of other animals that people thought were domesticated and then they turned on their owners. Why would anyone think any different in this kind of setting?

    • kim March 24, 2011 at 7:36 PM #

      Okay, but that is someone the circus hires. Maybe they ASPCA could either do spot checks, ask for volunteers to check out things, something like that. Because you know if the circus is paying them they aren’t going to saying anything about the abuse, unless they are a really honest and good person.

      • kim March 24, 2011 at 7:37 PM #

        I mean they aren’t all going to be like Jacob Jankowski in WFE who would do something to stop the abuse.

  17. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:16 PM #

    IMO, if the ASPCA is going to bring this evidence to light. they should be fully prepared for the trial.

    • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 7:18 PM #

      True and Ringling is big and has big lawyers so you know they ASPCA isn’t coming in with enough.

      All about what you can prove and if those witnesses are credible. Court doesn’t take into account public opinion.

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:21 PM #

        that’s exactly what happened Lurker. ASPCA originally brought them to court in 2000. The case was dismissed in 2001. They tried again in 2003 and asked the judge for more time to gather evidence. Case finally went to trial in 2009 and they STILL LOST.

        • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:25 PM #

          Are there any celebrities supporting them?

  18. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:18 PM #

    Hi Kim!

    • kim March 24, 2011 at 7:25 PM #

      Hi

  19. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:27 PM #

    I remember a few years ago i think it was a trainer was killed by the tigers in front of the public. He kept hitting the tigers and they finally turned on him.

    • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:33 PM #

      Your not talking about the famous tiger trainer in vegas?

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:35 PM #

        nope this one was actually attacked by a pack of tigers.

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:38 PM #

        i saw that one on t.v. too.

  20. Lurker March 24, 2011 at 7:31 PM #

    Do you all think there might be some backlash about elephant abuse after the WFE movie is released?

    • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:37 PM #

      there might be. i would be shocked if there wasn’t.

      • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 7:40 PM #

        I looked around the internet and PETA has a number of disturbing images from Ringling.
        Its really sad that the abuse can’t be stopped.

        • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:41 PM #

          i agree. i just boycott the circus if no one goes then they can’t perform.

          • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:50 PM #

            Well I have not gone in many years because I heard about the abuse done to these animals. I thought after all these years of protesting these animal circuses they would eventually go out of business. I really don’t think they are as abundant as they once were. At least it does not seem that way.

            • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:52 PM #

              it does seem as if it dwindling down.

        • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:51 PM #

          Clearly there is sufficent evidence to prove abuse don’t you think that the ASPCA would have done the leg work and had all their ducks lined up in a row for court? IMO, it shows their lack of actually trying.

          • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 7:58 PM #

            I just looked at Ringling’s elephant center and interesting that they have no endorsement by the AZA or IEF. Wonder why that is?

    • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:44 PM #

      I believe this film brings much needed awareness to all animal circuses. I think they should either be shut down if they are guilty of abuse.

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:46 PM #

        i know. how can that be done though if the groups that cry foul are paying their witnesses to lie in a court of law. it doesn’t look good on the aspca’s part.

        • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:59 PM #

          I think celebrities can play a significant role in bringing awareness to this issue. Sometimes when there is a well known celebrity to represent a cause (that does not get a lot of publicity) it can bring so much awareness in way’s a court room can’t.

          • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:02 PM #

            i agree. but back up just one second…..from the way it looks the ASPCA bribed a person. Do you think a celebrity in all fairness, if he/she knew that would support the ASPCA?

            • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:03 PM #

              that’s just going by the court docs not by the videos.

            • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 8:03 PM #

              No but – there are many more organizations that do the right thing that could use visibility.

              • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:05 PM #

                that’s true.

              • kim March 24, 2011 at 8:08 PM #

                Yeah like the elephant sanctuary that is in Georgia. The IEF (international Elephant Foundation)

            • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 8:09 PM #

              NO! I would not support them. Wow! That does not help their cause at all. See this really makes me angry. I mean they are doing a good deed but when they end up being just as shady as the people they are against. All their good deeds go out the window!! Hmm!! Not Good….

              • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:11 PM #

                I know. I always thought about sending a little money because this would be a cause i support (the aspca) but not now.

                • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 8:14 PM #

                  Well I agree with Lurker and Kim, there are other organizations out there that don’t have this kind of track record no?

                  • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:19 PM #

                    of course. but the ASPCA is always running commercials.

          • kim March 24, 2011 at 8:02 PM #

            I’m surprised that Fox doesn’t give a portion of their BO to the cause, I think that would be a great piece for publicity. Or have a special showing to help.

            • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:04 PM #

              i agree. they could give it to an elephant sanctuary.

          • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 8:02 PM #

            Very True!

  21. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 7:41 PM #

    the one thing i’m shocked at and maybe its just me because being stupid really gets me. The trainers know they are handling wild animals no matter how “domesticated” the animals might seem. if they are treated wrong they will attack. its their survival instinct. yet humans keep doing this and then are shocked when someone ends up dead.

    • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 7:45 PM #

      EXACTLY!!!

    • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 7:48 PM #

      So true!

    • kim March 24, 2011 at 7:58 PM #

      Yeah like the people that have big cats (tigers and lions) or chimpanzees as pets and wonder why some of them turn on them.

      Think about it dogs and cats can turn on people and they are suppose to be domesticated.

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:00 PM #

        i agree. like the chimp who ripped that ladies face off. Animals run on emotions. if they feel danger they are going to respond.

        • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 8:11 PM #

          Yep!! I had pet snakes as a child and when they get hungry u need to feed them stat. LOL!!

          • kim March 24, 2011 at 8:14 PM #

            Yuck!!! Snakes, rodents, spiders no way are pets especially in my house.

            I could never understand the people that have those huge snakes and then when they get out and hurt their children they want to know why.

            • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:16 PM #

              i agree a few years ago in florida a boa constrictor got out of the cage and killed a baby lying in its crib.

              • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:17 PM #

                florida then had a movement where people could turn in their boa’s and not be fined.

          • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:15 PM #

            oh i could never do that. what type of snakes?

            • kim March 24, 2011 at 8:16 PM #

              I’m not sure either pythons or boa constrictors because they get so big and eat big rodents, which to a snake a small child and big rodent the same.

  22. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:21 PM #

    Do celebrities not research the causes they support before they support them?

    • Lurker March 24, 2011 at 8:26 PM #

      Well there’s a highly recommended site that does charity evaluations – not sure if you all are familiar with it.

      http://www.charitynavigator.org/

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:30 PM #

        that’s a cool site Lurker.

        • ozzie20 March 24, 2011 at 8:50 PM #

          I’m bookmarking that site! I’m very wary when it comes to charities. I don’t know whether it happens in the US put here people try to get money off you by posing as charities. Registered ones you can trust but the un-registered ones are usually scammers.

          Also, I don’t agree with some charities behavour. So it will be handy to find out in advance before donating money.

          • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 8:59 PM #

            Hi Ozzie!!

            It happens in the US too. We are not immune to scammers!! But I agree this site Lurker has provided is awesome!!!

            • ozzie20 March 24, 2011 at 9:12 PM #

              I thought as much. I think it maybe a world wide thing unfortunately.

      • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 8:55 PM #

        That’s a really really great site Lurker!!

  23. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:38 PM #

    Is everyone still here?

    • ozzie20 March 24, 2011 at 8:41 PM #

      I am!

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:42 PM #

        ok.

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:43 PM #

        how are you?

        • ozzie20 March 24, 2011 at 8:50 PM #

          I’m ok. How are you?

  24. Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:42 PM #

    Everyone,

    I’m going to call it a night. Thanks for joining me tonight.

    • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 8:48 PM #

      Goodnight!!

      Great article and research. I’m really glad u brought awareness and a much needed discussion about this issue to the surface. Thank U!!

      • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:49 PM #

        your welcome. I try. 🙂

  25. Open Book March 24, 2011 at 8:43 PM #

    Here’s the type of snake I had it belong to the King snake family. I was trying to find a picture for u. I also had a hammer head snake. They are tiny.

    They are reptiles not rodents. They can be harmless if u respect them. However, my mother was afraid of them so I had to keep them away from her. LOL!!

    http://pet-snakes.com/more-pet-snakes/common-terms/colubrid

    • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:44 PM #

      i thought everyone left…lol

    • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:45 PM #

      That’s so cool. I could never have one. I would be like your mom. I have a SEVERE fear of snakes.

    • Parisienne March 24, 2011 at 8:46 PM #

      what do they eat?

      • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 8:51 PM #

        Well the Kings snakes would try to eat my birds but they ate rodents. The hammer heads would eat earthworms and slugs. LOL!!

    • kim March 24, 2011 at 8:50 PM #

      yeah I know they are reptiles but they are on the no go for living in my house. reptiles rodents, spiders.

      Well ladies, going go finish dinner. Good night.

      • ozzie20 March 24, 2011 at 8:58 PM #

        Night Kim!

      • Open Book March 24, 2011 at 9:01 PM #

        Oh! Gotcha!! My mom had the same rules. LOL!!

        Goodnight Kim!!

  26. Open Book March 24, 2011 at 9:03 PM #

    Everyone, thanks for joining us.

    Goodnight!!

  27. ozzie20 March 24, 2011 at 9:16 PM #

    Night everyone!

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